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38 Comments
peterklock
October 29, 2020
I loved her restaurants. While I was in College in Cambridge in 1962.”, I took her cooking classes. Every Tuesday evening in her restaurant twenty or thirty of us would prep a different dish each week, using a Chinese cleaver to slice and dice etc. Then she would sent the preps to the kitchen to cook and we’d all get to eat it. As I recall I was the only male and all the others were women considerably older than I was.
Her cookbook is marvelous. Her sweet and sour pork was not coated with a thick floury goo but a mixture of corn starch and water or wine. Her TV version was changed to have the thicker floury coating. The cornstarch coating is much more healthy.
The cookbook also had a spreadsheet at the beginning, long before spreadsheets we see today. Her sheet listed each recipe and rated it for ease to prepare, cost of ingredients from $ to $$$, time to prepare, and other characteristics.
Lots of fond memories of visits to her restaurants.
Peter
Her cookbook is marvelous. Her sweet and sour pork was not coated with a thick floury goo but a mixture of corn starch and water or wine. Her TV version was changed to have the thicker floury coating. The cornstarch coating is much more healthy.
The cookbook also had a spreadsheet at the beginning, long before spreadsheets we see today. Her sheet listed each recipe and rated it for ease to prepare, cost of ingredients from $ to $$$, time to prepare, and other characteristics.
Lots of fond memories of visits to her restaurants.
Peter
Charlotte
February 5, 2018
As an person of color, I didn't bat an eyelash at the author's use of "woman of color." In fact, I was surprised that so many people "cringed" when they read the phrase...and that all these offended people are actually white.
Listen lady, as a person who isn't white, I can tell you that we DON'T want to be shoved under your veneer of racial hyper-sensitivity. "But I don't see color!" you might say. Bullshit.
It's honestly so tiring when white people try to coach other people on how to be racially sensitive...especially when their main objective is to make THEMSELVES feel comfortable.
YES, black people want to be called black people, women of color want to be called women of color, and none of us want a white knight who constantly charges into the wrong battle.
Listen lady, as a person who isn't white, I can tell you that we DON'T want to be shoved under your veneer of racial hyper-sensitivity. "But I don't see color!" you might say. Bullshit.
It's honestly so tiring when white people try to coach other people on how to be racially sensitive...especially when their main objective is to make THEMSELVES feel comfortable.
YES, black people want to be called black people, women of color want to be called women of color, and none of us want a white knight who constantly charges into the wrong battle.
Brett N.
October 17, 2017
lol... I am not a member of this site. I just found her cookbook in my stack of old cookbooks. I've been reading it and wanted to learn more about Joyce Chen. I am eager to try some of her recipes and hopefully watch her show. Seems like quite a cook, and quite a woman. I didn't know, however, that the comments would turn in to a full blown race based argument. I am not a 40 something white woman. I'm a 31 year old white male. And as a commentary written here, of the time in which these events transpired, "person of color" was an entirely appropriate phrase... It isn't even an offensive term now unless used in context with the intent of being prejudice. Otherwise it is not a politically incorrect term, nor does it detract from her accomplishments. In fact it highlights that her accomplishments were even more so inspiring and impressive given the racist and sexist tones in American culture at the time... So yeah, grow up folks. Your willingness to defend against racism is wonderful. Your ignorance is unfortunately, obvious and, your downfall. Have fun kids. Keep cooking.
Idalu
October 13, 2017
@sarah blake. My goodness how easy it is for you to label people who don't think like you racist! Try to see things from other people's perspective before jumping to hurtful labels. People have different opinions in life, this platform should be used as an opportunity to enhance one's mind. I shouldn't have to say it but no I'm not racist.
Sarah B.
October 13, 2017
*sigh* I just feel like the folks complaining about calling a woman of color a woman of color are racist. Otherwise why would that make you cringe?
Suzanne D.
October 10, 2017
Hi, I wanted to say that we stand behind this story and Mayukh's writing. “Woman of color” is an appropriate term because this story is concerned with the politics of cultural reception. It’s not an exhaustive description that skims past her identity as Chinese or first generation, but a term that situates and celebrates her success in an industry that historically has treated whiteness as an invisible standard.
Barry S.
October 9, 2017
Three questions for the author:
1. What about the legacy of Joyce Chen beyond her own brand in Central Square, Cambridge, and beyond? (See, most notably, Mary Chung Restaurant.)
2. Why exactly does a color television production require a sponsor while a black-and-white one does not? (The cameras, studio equipment and transmitter would all have been fixed costs of WGBH.)
3. Was Barbara "B." Smith not a nationally broadcast chef and woman of color?
1. What about the legacy of Joyce Chen beyond her own brand in Central Square, Cambridge, and beyond? (See, most notably, Mary Chung Restaurant.)
2. Why exactly does a color television production require a sponsor while a black-and-white one does not? (The cameras, studio equipment and transmitter would all have been fixed costs of WGBH.)
3. Was Barbara "B." Smith not a nationally broadcast chef and woman of color?
Dana P.
November 8, 2017
Since I'm the source for the article of the assertion that color shows cost more than b&w, let me explain (and I should note that I asked a number of TV historians and historians of visual recording processes to confirm my thoughts):
--there are costs beyond "cameras, studio equipment and transmitter" (to quote the original poster) in any TV production. For example, to switch to color might require new set design (and it definitely would have for Chen's show since it had been using Julia Child's set but that itself had been dismantled in the changeover to color); it probably would require more attention from technicians and engineers ON AN ONGOING BASIS to ensure proper color reproduction (for example, color balancing); it would require different lighting. (And brighter: to hide the fact that the original show was using Julia Child's sets, a lot of the Chen show was shrouded in shadow. That wouldn't have worked in color, and even-overall lighting of the set for color would have required more lights, also bringing up expense.) All of these are new costs.
--if ever celluloid was involved in making copies of the show, that would have cost more for color than b&w. That's a given.
--it is not necessarily the case that initial camera purchase, studio equipment, and transmitter are fixed costs. Typically, studios amortize those by charging individual series the costs on an ongoing basis as overhead. So it is not WGBH itself that pays for the equipment outlay but individual shows -- who are charged in their budget for that outlay. So a color Chen show might well have had to incur charges against initial purchase of WGBH equipment in the conversion to color. WGBH buys the equipment but then individual shows are deemed to "owe" the station if they use that equipment. (And not just initial cost but repair and depreciation. For example, TV cameras in the 60s are notorious for bulbs blowing out.)
--I can't confirm this yet (but have a few inquiries out about it) but imagine that magnetic tape for color recording would be costlier (because needing to embed more visual information) than b&w).
--and in any case, it is a general perception in media industries and their administrators that new technologies cost money, whether or not that is actually the case. So for WGBH to contemplate an in-color Joyce Chen show might have meant them imagining something that would be costly and therefore probably require sponsorship.
Does that explain it?
--there are costs beyond "cameras, studio equipment and transmitter" (to quote the original poster) in any TV production. For example, to switch to color might require new set design (and it definitely would have for Chen's show since it had been using Julia Child's set but that itself had been dismantled in the changeover to color); it probably would require more attention from technicians and engineers ON AN ONGOING BASIS to ensure proper color reproduction (for example, color balancing); it would require different lighting. (And brighter: to hide the fact that the original show was using Julia Child's sets, a lot of the Chen show was shrouded in shadow. That wouldn't have worked in color, and even-overall lighting of the set for color would have required more lights, also bringing up expense.) All of these are new costs.
--if ever celluloid was involved in making copies of the show, that would have cost more for color than b&w. That's a given.
--it is not necessarily the case that initial camera purchase, studio equipment, and transmitter are fixed costs. Typically, studios amortize those by charging individual series the costs on an ongoing basis as overhead. So it is not WGBH itself that pays for the equipment outlay but individual shows -- who are charged in their budget for that outlay. So a color Chen show might well have had to incur charges against initial purchase of WGBH equipment in the conversion to color. WGBH buys the equipment but then individual shows are deemed to "owe" the station if they use that equipment. (And not just initial cost but repair and depreciation. For example, TV cameras in the 60s are notorious for bulbs blowing out.)
--I can't confirm this yet (but have a few inquiries out about it) but imagine that magnetic tape for color recording would be costlier (because needing to embed more visual information) than b&w).
--and in any case, it is a general perception in media industries and their administrators that new technologies cost money, whether or not that is actually the case. So for WGBH to contemplate an in-color Joyce Chen show might have meant them imagining something that would be costly and therefore probably require sponsorship.
Does that explain it?
ChefJune
October 9, 2017
I never met Joyce, but her daughter Helen was my colleague in the Women's Culinary Guild of Boston in the 80's-early 90's. Joyce Chen's influence in the Boston food community was considerable.
I am sorry some of you think referring to her as a person of color is offensive. Personally, I think it's just an accurate description of her. And her tv show WAS the first hosted by a person of color.
I am sorry some of you think referring to her as a person of color is offensive. Personally, I think it's just an accurate description of her. And her tv show WAS the first hosted by a person of color.
susan G.
October 8, 2017
Joyce Chen's TV shows taught me a lot! They were broadcast by public TV in Washington DC. I was a 'young bride' then, and loved to think that I could learn to cook foods at that time were seen as restaurant-only. I still go back to her cookbook, as much for the text as the recipes. (See what she says about using ginger.)
Panfusine
October 8, 2017
Brilliant tribute to a pioneer Mayukh Sen. Cant't ask for a better inspiration for those of us 'melanin endowed' cooks to carry on creating versions of our respective native cuisines to be carried forward for future generations in the US of A, and of course the cherry on the icing would be if they attained the level of stardom that Julia Child managed to get for French cuisine, (with the little help from the 'privilege' she was born with.)
Idalu
October 8, 2017
I cringed too when I read "woman of color". Who are the colorless people? She was a woman, a succesful chef and restaurant owner. Tell her story, which you did beautifully but leave it as that.
Abby
October 8, 2017
Another former Bostonian who grew up on Joyce's food. I still compare every potsticker I eat to her Peking Ravioli and I use her cookbook regularly. It may not be authentic, but the food is delicious.
Incidentally, I can confirm that she did indeed have Alzheimer's - my mom was involved with the lab where her post-mortem diagnosis was done.
Incidentally, I can confirm that she did indeed have Alzheimer's - my mom was involved with the lab where her post-mortem diagnosis was done.
mcs3000
October 5, 2017
Another fantastic piece, Mayukh. Some people are strong writers. Some reporters. You're both.
Betty B.
October 5, 2017
I loved reading the information about Joyce Chen and her amazing accomplishments. I did cringe when I read your description of her as " a person of color". We do not need the divisive language that ascribes difference based on one's skin tone or country of origin. Social and cultural hierarchies are a thing of the past...or should be.
caninechef
October 6, 2017
Is "white fragility" real or imagined really an issue here? From a quick bit of research ( I can not swear to its completeness) but it looks like Joyce Chen's program was the 5th televised cooking show in the USA. It seems to me that it demeans her achievement to qualify her success. She was clearly in the forefront of what today has become a huge industry, surely an achievement worthy without qualification. I am sure America had not seen a face like hers cooking on TV before because they had seen very few faces at all, ( on none for probably 90% plus of the US population) in 1966.
melissa
October 6, 2017
yes, caninechef: betty barrett tells us she "cringes" when she hears the term "person of color." that is actually the DEFINITION of white fragility which you'd know if you actually read the article.
also, why do you, or BB, assume that calling someone a POC is demeaning??????????????? AHHHH FKLDAJFLKDAFJLKAREIOFU
white fragility is not imaginary. it is an observable reaction coined and explicated by a professor of multicultural education. again, you'd know if you actually read.
race is a social fiction with lived material consequences.
race is a social fiction with lived material consequences.
race is a social fiction with lived material consequences.
race is a social fiction with lived material consequences.
race is a social fiction with lived material consequences.
race is a social fiction with lived material consequences.
Nice White Ladies with your pink pussy hats, where are you?
also, why do you, or BB, assume that calling someone a POC is demeaning??????????????? AHHHH FKLDAJFLKDAFJLKAREIOFU
white fragility is not imaginary. it is an observable reaction coined and explicated by a professor of multicultural education. again, you'd know if you actually read.
race is a social fiction with lived material consequences.
race is a social fiction with lived material consequences.
race is a social fiction with lived material consequences.
race is a social fiction with lived material consequences.
race is a social fiction with lived material consequences.
race is a social fiction with lived material consequences.
Nice White Ladies with your pink pussy hats, where are you?
melissa
October 6, 2017
as a longtime member of food52 i take it that as middle-aged and educated women of ALL colors, many of you here want to "be nice," "take the high road, "remain above the fray," "stay positive," "inhabit your best self," etc. etc. please know that this leaves the marginalized tasked with the emotional and mental labor of having to defend ourselves, alone, against challenges to self-naming, self-expression, and general claims to existence.
i don't know whether this is geographic, generational, class-based, race-based, or a combination of all these things, but it is clear that the language and topics mayukh uses in this article and in his other work, comes under constant challenge here. (he gets praise, too, but the praisers rarely step in to challenge his challengers. with friends like that...)
it's very clear that Food52 is NOT a good place to nurture writers of color. like many institutions, they will hire you to add "spice" to the offerings, but the community and leadership are nowhere to be found when you have to deal with racist s*it. this is the difference between hiring others to do the diversity work for you, and doing it your g-d selves.
and yes, i will continue to use this site as i always have, because i like the recipes.
i don't know whether this is geographic, generational, class-based, race-based, or a combination of all these things, but it is clear that the language and topics mayukh uses in this article and in his other work, comes under constant challenge here. (he gets praise, too, but the praisers rarely step in to challenge his challengers. with friends like that...)
it's very clear that Food52 is NOT a good place to nurture writers of color. like many institutions, they will hire you to add "spice" to the offerings, but the community and leadership are nowhere to be found when you have to deal with racist s*it. this is the difference between hiring others to do the diversity work for you, and doing it your g-d selves.
and yes, i will continue to use this site as i always have, because i like the recipes.
Abby
October 8, 2017
Speaking as a middle-aged white woman who proudly wore her pussy hat in DC, "person of color" was exactly the right phrase to use in that article. Race was an issue at the time, Mayukh Sen was right to write about it, and right to use the language of racial difference in America.
Sorry, Melissa, that I didn't see this and comment earlier. You do have support around here.
Sorry, Melissa, that I didn't see this and comment earlier. You do have support around here.
Lauren
October 8, 2017
I agree, great article, BUT very poor choice of nomenclature that also caused me to cringe. @Betty Barrett, you are right on target. Talk about race-baiting, Food52 should be ashamed that they don't have a better editing system to replace any race based nomenclature. A better solution, call people of various racial origins by their actual origins.
Liza
October 9, 2017
Pro tip: when someone who is not you, tells you "this is my experience," don't argue with them and deny the reality that they live in. Listen. Acknowledge. Learn something. furthermore the phrase "woman of color" is neither devisive, or race baiting. It is only offensive to fragile white "snowflakes" who refuse to open their eyes and see the very real injustices experienced by people (of color) every day. because to acknowledge the injustice would mean they have to acknowledge that they are the beneficiaries of a system that oppresses, and it would also mean that there is a moral imperative to do something about it, and that upsets their delicate sensibilities. It is apparently easier to deny the reality of millions of people than it is to do literally anything about it. What blows my mind is doing nothing wasn't even enough, you had to take to the internet to disparage a writer for "race baiting" because he wrote about race in an article in which the subject's race was important to the story. Seriously??? Maybe it's time to reassess why it made you uncomfortable, maybe it's time to examine how you respond to other race related issues and try to get at the root of what drives those emotions. It's difficult work, and it requires self awareness and reflection. But when your gut reaction to reading the phrase "woman of color" makes you "cringe," if even the slightest reference to a race other than yours gives you a visceral reaction, it's time to do the work. And I promise the problem isn't "race baiting" it's how low your threshold is for "baiting". That one's on you. Do better next time.
Lauren
October 9, 2017
@Liza, you might consider taking your own advice. "When someone who is not you, tells you 'this is my experience,' don't argue with them and deny the reality that they live in. Listen. Acknowledge." *Applause*. I find (quite emphatically) the term "woman of color" both divisive and incredibly race baiting. Also I might point out, you might consider learning to spell "divisive". Perhaps you're not fully aware of what it means.
Liza
October 9, 2017
@lauren. Cool, if you care to educate me on more than my spelling, by all means you have the floor. Why does "woman of color" make you uncomfortable? How is it race baiting? I'm head to listen.
Abby
October 9, 2017
Lauren, could you also offer an alternative phrase with the same meaning? Since you don't like "women of color," what would you prefer? Non-white women? Coloured women? Pigment-enhanced women? "Women of color" and "people of color" are the commonly accepted terms used in the US today. Unless you have a better suggestion, you are not just trying to police our language, you are trying to impose limits on the categories we're allowed to think about. Very 1984.
Lindsay-Jean H.
October 9, 2017
Hi all, just popping on to remind everyone that we're all for engaging in spirited debate and learning from each other, even when we disagree. Please continue to choose your words carefully, be considerate of others, and keep the conversation in the realm of respectful debate and constructive criticism.
Lauren
October 9, 2017
@Abby, absolutely! I made such a suggestion in my first post, see above. "... call people of various origins by their actual origins." By way of example, an American woman with Chinese heritage such as Ms. Chen would be better referred to as "Chinese-American." So simple.
Lauren
October 9, 2017
@Liza, I'll be happy to explain. I think that history reveals a telling story about racial nomenclature, think of the many ways in which people have described racial heritage through history; even just decades ago certain terms for describing various races are now deemed incredibly incendiary. Thus, I strongly believe that simply calling people of various origins by their actual origins or racial heritage(s) is an easy way to prevent any discomfort.
Abby
October 9, 2017
Lauren, the question was for a phrase with the same meaning. Referring to Joyce Chen as Chinese is very different from calling her a woman of color. There are experiences of being "other" that are common to all women n the US who are not white. Without an expression that describes that group, it becomes impossible to discuss those commonalities. Limiting ourselves to only origins or racial heritage is silencing discussion on important issues of our time.
Maybe this would be clearer with a comparable example. Imagine if you were told you could not discuss "Christians", but only individual denominations. You could not discuss "Christian beliefs" or "Christian values", only Episcopal beliefs and values and Southern Baptist beliefs and values and Methodist beliefs and Lutheran beliefs etc., all as separate things. Can you see how that limits the discussion and damages the ability to express ideas effectively? That's exactly what you are asking for, just based on race/origin rather than on religion.
While it may make you uncomfortable, the reality women who are not white see themselves as sharing experiences, interests, and issues. The language has to exist to talk about that commonality.
Maybe this would be clearer with a comparable example. Imagine if you were told you could not discuss "Christians", but only individual denominations. You could not discuss "Christian beliefs" or "Christian values", only Episcopal beliefs and values and Southern Baptist beliefs and values and Methodist beliefs and Lutheran beliefs etc., all as separate things. Can you see how that limits the discussion and damages the ability to express ideas effectively? That's exactly what you are asking for, just based on race/origin rather than on religion.
While it may make you uncomfortable, the reality women who are not white see themselves as sharing experiences, interests, and issues. The language has to exist to talk about that commonality.
Lauren
October 9, 2017
@Abby, I wholly disagree with that idea. My argument remains the same, the term "people of color" is an unfortunate term that is frankly offensive to some (as these posts clearly show). The parallels by which you attempt to show similarity between the term "Christians" and "people of color" do not justify the use of an inflammatory term. For example, the term "Christian(s)" is used to describe a group of people who share some core, religious belief systems, such as the belief in an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion which places particular emphasis on Jesus Christ; it is a very specific religious group and one that as you have accurately pointed out has numerous different denominations or sects. Calling entire swaths of people of different racial heritages by one term (a term that is clearly incendiary to at least some) is quite unthinking and verges on rude. Further, your argument contains a Non Sequitur fallacy "...women who are not white see themselves as sharing experiences, interests, and issues. The language has to exist to talk about that commonality." Non Sequitur: It does not follow. Although the first sentence may be true, the second is not a logical conclusion. If using a person's (or persons') actual national origin or racial heritage is not easy, or as you have pointed out fails to describe the "otherness" that people of various racial backgrounds may find in common, there are plentiful other terms by which to call people of various national and racial origins. Some which come to mind are the following: non-Caucasian, first (or second+) American immigrant, etc. I think it not so difficult as some might first imagine.
Abby
October 9, 2017
"Non-Caucasian" is defining people by a negative, that is hostile language. Not all first or second generations immigrants are not white. Those words do not have the same meaning as women of color of people of color. The question for me is, what is there about that entirely factual phrase that upsets you?
Charlotte
February 5, 2018
As an person of color, I didn't bat an eyelash at the author's use of "woman of color." In fact, I was surprised that so many people "cringed" when they read the phrase...and that all these offended people are actually white.
Listen lady, as a person who isn't white, I can tell you that we DON'T want to be shoved under your veneer of racial hyper-sensitivity. "But I don't see color!" you might say. Bullshit.
It's honestly so tiring when white people try to coach other people on how to be racially sensitive...especially when their main objective is to make THEMSELVES feel comfortable.
YES, black people want to be called black people, women of color want to be called women of color, and none of us want a white knight who constantly charges into the wrong battle.
Listen lady, as a person who isn't white, I can tell you that we DON'T want to be shoved under your veneer of racial hyper-sensitivity. "But I don't see color!" you might say. Bullshit.
It's honestly so tiring when white people try to coach other people on how to be racially sensitive...especially when their main objective is to make THEMSELVES feel comfortable.
YES, black people want to be called black people, women of color want to be called women of color, and none of us want a white knight who constantly charges into the wrong battle.
Andrea N.
October 4, 2017
Great reporting and analysis, down to the J.C. irony between Chen and Child. I love Joyce Chen's chutzpah. Because of you, I'm adding JC's '62 book to my collection. Thanks, Mayuhk.
Hillary
October 4, 2017
Thank you for keeping Chef Chen's legacy alive. Like others below, I spent my childhood Sundays eating at her Cambridge restaurant. She gave me countless panda pins over the years and always stopped by the table for a warm chat. I treasure my signed copy of her cookbook and still aspire to find a Peking dumpling worthy of her. I don't think ill ever find one.
Starmade
October 4, 2017
I love these experience-near histories you do, Mayukh. I also grew up in Massachussetts when Joyce Chen was important; lots of people learned from her, my mother certainly did; in the age that invented wonder bread and pop tarts, she opened a vista on another whole world of cooking.
Bethviola
October 4, 2017
I'm a Boston area native who grew up going to Joyce Chen and all the dumplings in the area were called Peking ravioli. I loved reading this and learning about the woman behind it all. Thanks for the awesome feature.
stingraystirs
October 3, 2017
Thanks for another great piece. This one is particularly meaningful because my Grandmother, who lived in a small N.H. town, was obsessed with Joyce Chen. She watched her show religiously (and according to my mother, complained bitterly about WGBH when the show was cancelled, threatening to stop donating to public television). The recipes from her well worn copy of "The Joyce Chen Cook Book" were on regular rotation for years, including those egg rolls, which we loved as kids. It was definitely my introduction to Chinese cooking, even if it wasn't purely authentic, her practicality and addition of things like ground beef definitely appealed to my Grandmother, who had a hard time getting the ingredients. She even owned the Joyce Chen wok and taught us all how to use it. My Grandmother would have enjoyed your story too, and now I need to go call my Mother (who has her copy of the cook book) for that egg roll recipe. Thanks again....
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