Thanksgiving 911

How about farmers cheese or fromage frais? (Sorry, just saw your note!)

Also, you can add herbs and spices to dry brines and they infuse well. Also, sounds like the pie crust might not have had enough flour. Next time, you could also do half butter/ half shortening, which holds up better.

If by excessive you mean freakin' awesome then I say yes yes to the cheese, but that's just my opinion because I LOVE a cheese & fruit course

I think that would be fantastic! I'd probably choose a less sweet blue cheese -- maybe a Danish blue or Stilton.

Bummer! The truth is that they won't taste the same as pie crusts made with white flour. If you don't mind a crust that's a bit heavier and sort of nutty-tasting, you could just go with it. But if you're someone who's very particular about your pie crust, it's probably best to start over. Sorry!

Thanks so much. I did end up re-making them. The upside is that I got an excellent arm workout doing the whole process twice! Less damage to be done tomorrow. I appreciated your input!

No problem! Think you made the right choice. Happy Thanksgiving!

Does the salmon still have the head on? Ina Garten wrote in one of her books about having the same problem once when she was doing a catering job. She just cut off the fish head, cooked it separately and reassembled it before serving. However, if the aluminum pan is the only way to go, it should be fine as long as you aren't cooking the fish with acids like lemon juice or wine.

Thank you.

Can you use eggs? If so this apple cake could be a good option: http://www.food52.com/recipes/704_deep_south_apple_cake

So funny--I made that recipe twice around the Jewish holidays this year, and it was big hit (even better with pecans than without!), but I think there may be a little deep south apple cake fatigue... but eggs are fine!

Would you be interested in a granita? Then all you have to do is freeze and scrape with a fork. Let me know!

According to this USDA fact sheet (http://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/high_altitude_cooking_and_food_safety/index.asp#5) poultry is not affected by dry roasting at high altitudes. Braising and simmering, however, can require longer cooking times by up to a quarter.

I don't think that's a terrible idea at all -- your plan sounds great! A whole turkey stays warm for a long time -- just don't carve it until the last minute.

USDA says to cook turkey to an internal temperature of 165 degrees. Unstuffed, the turkey should take 3 to 4 hours to cook. It's difficult to say how many minutes per pound because it depends on whether your turkey goes into the oven cold or closer to room temperature (I recommend the latter). The great thing with turkey is that if it finishes cooking early, you can take it out and let it sit -- it needs time to rest before slicing and will hold it's temperature for a while. Good luck!

Thank you so much. I was thinking like 7 hours. I am going to take your advice though and make it 7 hours ahead and then take it out when internal temp reaches 165 and tent it after. I will make the gravy then. I will bring it to the table at room temp and carve it in front of everyone. That is fun! :-) Thank you for your help ladies.!!!!

I love Calvin Trillin - thanks for sharing the quote!

Thanks pierino!

Thanks so much--am still hoping Calvin Trillin's piece has been re-printed in the NYTimes? It SHOULD be, every year...haven't seen the Times in 3 days now--away and, yes, cooking a turkey tomorrow! Spag Carbonara on Saturday, perchance?

Fruit pies freeze best and can be frozen before baking or after, although if you defrost a pre-baked pie, you'll want to re-crisp the crust in a 325-degree oven for a few minutes before serving. If you haven't yet baked the pie, then I'd defrost it in the fridge for a day and then put it directly into the oven (no need to bring to room temp). I wouldn't freeze a custard, cream or chiffon pie. And if you do any freezing at all, one month is the max -- the freezer is tough on doughs. Lastly, pies that you want to make ahead but not freeze, make them a day ahead. You can get a way with two days ahead, but it's not ideal. Hope I've answered all your questions -- if not, let me know!

I'd only slow roast lamb shoulder -- a fattier cut that I want to cook all the way through. With leg of lamb that you want rare or medium-rare, pull the lamb out of the fridge 30 minutes before cooking, then roast it at 375 degrees and begin checking the internal temperature after 1 hour. You want an internal temp of 130 for medium rare. A 5- to 7-pound leg of lamb should be done in less than 1 1/2 hours.

Sorry to hear about the flu-situation. Yes, you can freeze truffle butter, no problem.

Not adverse effects, but very good ones! Go forth in your brining, and let us know how it all goes.

The risk with overly moist meat is that the skin never crisps up. Presumably, you can roast the turkey with butter everywhere, covered with a moist cheesecloth, and remove it at the end and jack up the heat to crisp the skin. Roasting a turkey with veggies in the pan really amps up the flavor of the jus, but they burn very quickly (especially if you're raising the temperature to crisp the skin) The trick is to keep enough liquid in the bottom of the pan to offset the very long cooking time. Then, when making the gravy you can certainly puree them, or push them through a strainer with the back of a spoon, but most of the flavor of the vegetables will be in the liquid, so you can also just strain them out. If however, you want to serve the roasted vegetables, you can take them out when you see that they're done during the cooking process.

If you peel and slice the potatoes early, you have to keep them in water until you're ready to use them, and then dry them out individually on towels before you cook with them. Honestly, it's probably less work to slice the potatoes than it is to dry them all out. The squash, though, you can definitely do a day or two before and just store in the fridge.

We'd approach the convection oven much as we'd approach a normal oven, just prepare yourself with better, crisper results in a shorter cooking time. So keep your eye on it, and be aware that it'll take less time than it would usually take.

If you have a Dacor convection oven, reduce the heat by 25 degrees as well, and use "Convection Roast." The Dacor is incredibly well insulated. You might want to check with the manufacturer of your oven, if it's not a Dacor, to see what they recommend. Convection ovens can be tricky, and you really don't want to dry out the breast with a heat that's too high, before the lower joint is fully cooked..

Merrill wrote some great notes on the art of gravy making -- see below! And for a fantastic celery root and potato puree, check out our recent winner for Autumn Celeriac Puree: http://www.food52.com/recipes/1077_autumn_celeriac_celery_root_puree

As a certified safe food handler in two states and three cities, I can confidently tell you this: you can leave food out for a while. A long while. The "danger zone" for food is 41-140 degrees F, and it's within these temperatures (ie, room temperature) that you have to worry. Technically speaking, the rule of thumb is 4 hours in the zone is safe for both cooked and raw foods. I'd be slightly more careful with raw eggs or poultry, but everything else can sit on the counter without any concern. Frankly, I've left foods out for up to 6 hours without thinking about it twice. Hope this helps!

You can bake your pie a day or two early, wrap it well and refrigerate it. Just reheat it at 350 for 15-20 minutes to crisp it up and warm it through.

In my house, as soon as dinner goes on the table, we lower the oven to 250 and put the pies right in. By the time we're ready for dessert, they're perfectly warmed through.

We'd recommend roasting it in a pan in the oven. You'd probably want to start at 350 until the internal temperature of the breast reads at 145, then turn up the heat to 400 until the internal temperature reads 160 (this will crisp up the skin). For the rub, you have a couple of options. You can slather it with butter, salt, pepper, some fresh thyme and sage, or you can slather it with butter, and sprinkle with a mix of salt, pepper, garlic powder, onion powder and paprika. And if you're averse to using butter, you can drizzle with olive oil. Let us know how it works!

It sounds like you have a solid plan (salt, butter, tenting) but if you're looking for more specific instructions, or a creative approach or two, let us know!

One of this week's finalists, the Arugula, Pear, and Goat Cheese Salad with Pomegranate Vinaigrette (http://www.food52.com/recipes/1666_arugula_pear_and_goat_cheese_salad_with_pomegranate_vinaigrette) uses romaine. Enjoy!

Amanda likes to add the neck and the heart to the bottom of the turkey pan, and roast them alongside the bird. Then, she picks the meat with the goal of serving it, but oftentimes eats it herself in the kitchen. You can also fry the liver in the turkey drippings, and then proceed to make the gravy with it! And the best way to crisp skin is to finish the turkey on a high heat (in the 400 degree range) and don't tent it when it comes out! When you tent the skin, it steams and loses all that hard earned crispness.

I cook the heart, neck and giblets in the turkey stock, then pick the meat and mince the giblets & heart up very very small. It's amazing in the turkey gravy and no one needs to know what it is. (I hope my guests aren't reading this.) The liver is added to chicken livers for chopping w/eggs & onions.

The pumpkin and apple pies can be made a day or two before, although you might want to make the lemon meringue the day of if you can (meringue tends to bead and shrink if it's refrigerated for more than a few hours). Creamed onions will hold in the fridge for a day or two and reheat beautifully. The only dish that could present a bit of a problem is the brussels sprouts. Is there any way you can prep all of the ingredients beforehand, bring them with you, and throw them together right before the meal?

Butter Crust is the best from the Mystery Chef Radio Show in the 1950s.
1 cup all purpose flour
1/2 cup butter, room temperature
1 teaspoon baking powder
1 heaping tablespoon sugar
1/8 teaspoon salt
Sift the dry ingredients together, mix and add the butter,
cut it with a knife to get it to blend, flour your hands first and then rub the butter with the flour mixture until blended completely. Add one teaspoon of water and form into a ball. Roll it out and put it in a pie pan. This crust is harded to handle than a regular crust, so I cut it in fourths and using a pastry paddle, I move a fourth of crust at a time, and then reassemble in the pie pan. Doesn't look so good, but it won't matter after it's cooked.
This will make one crust.
Double the recipe if you want two crusts.
If you are making a pie that requires a pre-cooked crust, then poke the crust with a fork and bake it at 425 degrees for about 12 minutes. If you are making a pie with a covered pie crust besure and use your knife to provide some exits for steam during the cooking process. Everytime someone gives me an incredible pie recipe their mother had, they are usually shocked that my version of it is better than their mother's and the secret is this pie crust. God bless you. Susan Fox
http://seasonitwithwatkins.blogspot.com

We've had some more great comments on this very topic -- to see them, just scroll down a bit!

You basically just want to moisten the bread with the liquid -- so it's damp but not wet. It's usually 2 to 3 cups of liquid to a loaf of bread. It's better to be conservative with the amount you add because you can always add more as the stuffing bakes.

Glad to hear someone else uses the Cuisinart for pie crusts. Mine are foolproof. I use the James Beard recipe that came with my Cusinart eons ago. If you don't have the metal ring, you can make a frame very easily with aluminum fool. Fold into quarters a piece of foil which, when unfolded, will cover the whole pie. Cut a large quarter circle shape, leaving the two sides opposite the center folded corner, so that when you unfold it, you have cut a circle out of the middle of the square. Works like a charm!

Thank you both for your great contributions to the great pie crust debate! We're also big fans of using the food processor.

From what I've read, pearl onions and boiling onions are simply baby onions -- the pearl onion an infant, the boiling onion a toddler. I'd use them interchangeably, and just remember that the boiling onions will need to cook for slightly longer.

there was a thread about this question on serious eats:
http://www.seriouseats.com/talk/2009/11/mashed-potatoes-for-thanksgiving---3-questions.html
hope this helps?

You can hold them over a double boiler, but I think it's easier to make them in a heavy pot and keep them in it, covered, until a few minutes before serving. Then reheat them over low heat, blending in more of whatever liquid you've used (stock, cream or milk).

I always make mashed potatoes first to get them out of the way, and I find they hold really well using the method Amanda describes above. A little warm liquid whips them right back into shape!

Here is a funny story from the Awl -- in which Choire Sicha "debunks" the difficulty of making pie dough from scratch. http://bit.ly/5yyYFU I like the butter and cream cheese crusts in The Pie and Pastry Bible by Rose Levy Beranbaum. I learned a lot about pastry making from this book -- the key is chilling all your ingredients and not over-working the dough. If you don't have a pastry blender, you can do it in a food processor, or even quite easily by hand with your fingertips or a fork. Good luck!

Funny -- a friend just sent me that same link from the Awl. I guess I'm a wuss when it comes to crust! Or maybe people just make such a big deal out of it. Anyway, thanks for the tips. I'll report back.

It's different from table salt in that it isn't as fine grained, and it has no preservatives. I like using it in cooking because it's fresher and less aggressively salty. I also keep a flaky sea salt on hand for finishing, but Kosher salt is my go-to, all-purpose salt for cooking.

Also, not all Kosher salts are the same - there was a study in a magazine a while back (Saveur, perhaps?) that compared various salts and Diamond Crystal, my favorite Kosher salt, had a lower sodium content than Morton's and others.

Glad you raised the saltiness factor, lastnightsdinner! Morton's does, indeed, taste saltier and should not be used in the same proportions as Diamond Crystal, which has a softer salinity.

Janneke, it's possible that kosher salt is an American product. I don't ever remember seeing it in markets when I lived in England -- do even they sell such a thing in the Netherlands?

I believe Kosher Salt is called that because it is required in the proper slaughtering of animals under Kosher rules. The blood must be extracted from the meat and large salt is the best way to do that.
I'm not Jewish, but I live in Brooklyn :).
Here's the Wikipedia article on Kosher Salt:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosher_salt

Thanks for the answers, I did not know there is such a variety in salt; they keep it simple here, fine salt or coarse. I never saw it in the Netherlands but I will try to get my hands on it next time I'm in Antwerp. Thanx for the explanation of the name comestibles, it makes more sense now I read the link.

We would use the same guidelines outlined below for dry brining a whole turkey -- 3/4 teaspoon salt per pound of meat, on top of the skin, for 2 days. (Again, these suggestions come straight from The Zuni Cafe Cookbook) Good luck!

As we know them in the U.S., yams and sweet potatoes are interchangeable. The name "yam" is often adopted to distinguish varieties of sweet potato with bright orange flesh and dark skin (garnet yams, jewel yams, etc.) from their lighter brethren. Basically, anything you come across in your local supermarket will work for a Thanksgiving side dish. Real yams, which are not native to North America, are completely unrelated to sweet potatoes. They are very long, with dark brown or black skin and a higher sugar content than sweet potatoes. Although you can find them in some Latin grocery stores, you wouldn't want to use these in typical American sweet potato or yam recipes.

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I love the ones with the dark skins and bright flesh . . . . they are just gorgeous and so, well, inviting. And the fact that their names are beautiful doesn't hurt. ;o)

Are pink greens beet greens? If so, yes I've had success cooking fresh spinach in recipes calling for beet greens. I do reduce the cooking time slightly. Baby spinach is much more tender and will wilt just about the second it hits a hot pan.

The "Pink Greens" recipe is made with beet greens but, yes, you can make it with spinach. Use mature spinach (large leaves as opposed to the baby stuff in bags) and, as Savorykitchen suggests, decrease the cooking time by a few minutes.

We completely understand your anxiety, but the good news is that gravy is really a no-brainer once you know what to do. Once the turkey is cooked, carefully pour off all but a few tablespoons of the fat, reserving the juices (you can use a gravy separator for this if you have one). Put the pan right on the stove over medium-low heat and add a large splash of wine or cognac, or whatever dry booze you have lying around. Cook for a little bit, scraping the pan to release all of the brown bits. At this stage, you can whisk in a smidge of flour (about 1 tablespoon) if you'd like. Then whisk in chicken or turkey stock (about 1/4 cup per guest) and simmer, stirring occasionally, until the gravy reaches the consistency you want. Taste, season with salt and pepper, and you're done!

and if you're averse to using booze to deglaze the pan, orange juice works well too.

will give it a try. thanks so much ladies!

The first thing I do is cut off the legs and slice them. Then I like to remove the entire breast from each side of the turkey so I can lay it on a cutting board and thinly slice it like a roast. This makes it much easier to handle -- no fighting with bones! Next my favorite part: picking the bones. Some of the most delicious meat is on the underside of the bird, around the backbone. Many people save these bits for soup but I like to serve them for the big meal. Here's a good video on YouTube from Cooking.com: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GCdkuQoLrY

I find someone else to do it.

it also helps in slicing the breasts of if you remove the wishbone before roasting the turkey

Thanks so much for reminding us! Amanda made that stuffing, and it is both delicious and indeed, gluten free. And thank you for weighing in, it sounds like you have more expertise in this area than we do, and we so appreciate your weighing in.

As a note, I've made the cornbread with unflavored soy milk (don't make it with the vanilla flavored one, as I did once. Really not what I wanted...) Also, while the dressing recipe calls for cream, I've made it without cream, too.

For savory dishes, the best substitute for heavy cream is often olive oil, and for sweet dishes, we recommend coconut cream. Many cornbread recipes do not include flour, and you may want to try soy milk in place of the dairy. We're not experts in this area but here are two sites to consult: glutenfreegirl.blogspot.com and babycakesnyc.com. Babycakes sells gluten-free, dairy-free and egg-free cornbread so they may be able to help you.

We recommend the smallest whole fresh turkey you can find. And remember, a turkey is a gift that keeps on giving -- the leftovers can be meals for a week, and the carcass can make a stock that can be frozen for months.

Stay tuned! In the next day or so our wine partner, Chambers Street Wines, will weigh in on this exact question!

The dry brining/salt rub method has been perfectly honed by Judy Rodgers of the Zuni Cafe, and these notes are summed up from her book, The Zuni Cafe Cookbook. Salting poultry beforehand allows for the reabsorption of salted moisture into the bird's flesh. She recommends using 3/4 of a teaspoon of salt per pound of meat, and salting the turkey 2-3 days in advance. She says to wipe the bird off before roasting (but not rinse it), and to roast it at a high heat (450-500). Ultimately the argument for dry rub comes down to this: you use about 1/10 the salt (for a 14# bird, you use 10.5 teaspoons as opposed to 96 used in a 2 cups salt : 8 cups water standard brine), and it takes up less room in the fridge! I've done it with chickens for years, and had great success, and would love to hear if you go this route for your turkey.

This is so helpful - thanks, Helen!

Helen, Thanks so much. I promise to report back.

Oooooooooooh. We've done the Zuni method with whole chickens before and love it. Excited to try it with turkey. Thanks, Helen!

Russ Parsons wrote this method up (for turkey) in today's Los Angeles Times: "An Even Better Bird"

Thanks Pierino for pointing us to Russ's story. Also, Kim Severson ran a recipe for dry-brined turkey in last week's NYT Dining Section. Here's a link: http://bit.ly/4qklWO

I think it's a good idea to combine these methods. By brining, you're basically taking out an insurance policy against dried-out meat, and you're adding flavor. But you should also do your best to avoid overcooking the turkey -- especially the white meat. As the NYT article points out, you can always return the dark meat to the oven to cook a little longer if you need to.

I'm making a Heritage turkey this year too, and both Amanda and I agree that brining helps to offset the lower fat content of an HT. We also think that low heat (350 degrees) is best, since the meat is darker and more sinewy than on a standard turkey. We'd recommend covering the turkey initially, and then uncovering it towards the end and turning the oven to 375 to brown the skin a little.