my all butter crust is still tuff. I'm fairly confident I am not over mixing when adding water and not over kneading what else could it be Mike Mc

It's also possible you are adding just a tad too much water to your dough. Though it can make it easier to get the dough to come together, and less prone to cracking- too much water also encourages more gluten formation. Personally, I prefer a mixture of half plain vodka and half cold water. The vodka contains less water, and yet still acts as a liquid to bind flour. The alcohol evaporates in the baking- and my pies are never tough from too much liquid. And the dough it easy to work with in the rolling, because there is less gluten formed.

Here's a suggestion: try half butter and half (cold) shortening and see if that helps. Shortening creates a flaky crust, and you still get the flavor of butter.